Talk:Magic Lamp

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Is this actually Lara Dorren's tomb? After analyzing it a bit more, it's really not clear in the quest. I suppose there can be more info in the game later, but since I didn't get there, I don't want to spoil it yet. But if you know it isn't, I can correct it :) — Gilrond (talk) 03:20, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

It shouldn't be. If I recall, the feainnewedd flowers should grow around where her blood had been. There aren't even feawinnewedd anywhere near Velen or anywhere in the Witcher 3. However these flowers can be found in Vizima. So my bet would be Lara Dorren's final resting place would be around Vizima not Velen. -— Iosueyu (talk) 06:12, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
I can change it to shrine or sanctuary then (other ways Geralt and Keira call it in the quest). But there is a possibility that it is her tomb. May be her remains were reburied there (so there was no blood involved), and that's why the mage actually came to that place to access her spirit with the lamp. Though title queen is confusing, since she wasn't a queen. May be it's poetic, or may be it refers to some actual elven queen buried there, and mage just used the tomb for experiments? — Gilrond (talk) 08:23, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
It's actually possible. The Tale of Lara Dorren, Lara's Gift and The Story of Lara Dorren and Cragen of Lod are the major lore books of her story. If we look closer, Feainnewedd grows in where Lara Dorren died and in Dol Blathanna. So it is not enough to dismiss the possibility completely, but there isn't enough evidence to be sure the cave was Lara's final resting place as well. So, a possibility. -— Iosueyu (talk) 10:00, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Post Scriptum: But the hints were uncanny. And thus they stood o'er their queen, who slept beneath flickering stars. Lara Dorren did died at a winter night giving birth to Riannon. Since the tomb was an elven structure, the inscription should be on the perspectives of the elves, which is why Lara's Gift is a good reference, that Lara drew her last breath while giving birth to her daughter, whom she protected with what warmth was left in her body. And even though night, winter and blizzard were all around, springtime suddenly came to the hill and feainnewedd flowers bloomed. No inscriptions on the grave but the Swallow, and Geralt guessed it was "Lara Dorren's Sepulcher". And on hindsight, the Aen Elles could be behind the structure so "The elves viewed her as a traitor" doesn't apply here. So my guess would be that THIS IS the tomb of Lara Dorren. But we still have to guess it and it was not outright given. -— Iosueyu (talk) 10:16, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, may be it was the intention of quest designers to leave things ambiguous. By the way, the swallow is a later addition to the carved gravestone. It's likely painted over by the masked mage himself. It could be that he was looking for real Lara Dorren's grave for the purpose of communicating with her spirit with the lamp, and eventually found this sanctuary, marking the grave with the swallow. It would mean that her commonly known burial place that Geralt references isn't real. The secrecy could also explain why the tombstone doesn't bear her name. And I suppose the reason for secrecy could be to avoid desecration by either those who opposed her, or those who could seek her magic even after her death (like that masked mage himself did?). — Gilrond (talk) 17:36, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Got something. At this article Dynastic descriptions, there is a link to an untranslated Google Doc written by Sapkowski. Under Lara Dorren,

LARĘ DORREN prawdopodobnie pochowano tam, gdzie zmarła, t.j. w lasach nieopodal Tretogoru, stolicy Redanii. Jednak legenda mówi, że elfy zabrały ciało LARY i pochowały w tajemnych grotach, w słynnym podziemnym elfim mieście Tir na Beag Arainne, gdzie nigdy nie stanęła i nie stanie stopa Dh’oine - człowieka.

And if we put it to Google Translate, we have this:

DORREN DARREN was probably buried where she died, i.e. in the forests near Tretogor, the capital of Redania. However, the legend says that the elves took LARA's body and buried it in secret caves, in the famous underground elf city of Tir on Beag Arainne, where the human Dh'oine never stood and did not.

So, here we are, more hints for the cave. Nothing solid yet unless we are able to tell the cave is actually underground elf city of Tir on Beag Arainne. My opinion? I think it is highly probable since the cave has a port and stuff. But I don't know Polish, so what I comprehend from Google Translate can still be wrong. -— Iosueyu (talk) 19:03, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
But look, there is this Tir ná Béa Arainne. Could be the place where Sapkowski wrote. -— Iosueyu (talk) 19:06, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Very interesting findings! However Tir ná Béa Arainne is supposed to be on Mount Gorgon which is near Beauclair, so quite far from Velen. Unless the legend itself isn't precise (it's a legend after all according to Sapkwoski himself), and Lara's grave wasn't there but in this particular underground tomb. Also, the legend could be misleading on purpose, to drive away unwanted attention, after all named location wouldn't much of a secret (though Lara's statue in the other cave as a decoy is a bit of a stretch). Also, same source in Wayback machine. — Gilrond (talk) 19:23, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Think we have dug enough. What's the decision? Perhaps adding our findings under a Note section? -— Iosueyu (talk) 19:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, describing this ambiguity and various hints in the notes would be good. We can also try pinging quest designers about it, though they might want to keep it a mystery on purpose :) — Gilrond (talk) 19:48, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
I summarized it in the notes. Thanks for your help! — Gilrond (talk) 20:43, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
I am 99,99% sure Tir na Beag Arainne is Tir ná Béa Arainne. Sapkowski published his notes about bloodlines earlier than Tower of the Swallow where Tir ná Béa Arainne appears, he could have changed the spelling. — SMiki5five (talk) 11:27, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

About feainnewedd[edit source]

Not sure if abundance of feainnewedd in Vizima swamps is a significant indicator. Didn't the legend say that feainnewedd grows where elder blood has been spilled? I.e. it could be some of Lara's descendants. — Gilrond (talk) 16:06, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Her descendants are recorded in Elder blood, for the short hand... and... from the perspective of the English language, I do believe if anything among the lines says elder blood is spilled, it means someone who carried elder blood died there, instead of cutting your finger and dropping a few drops. And I can only find the book Lara's Gift and a description of Yaevinn telling the tale of Feainnewedd to have mentioned and on the hill where Lara Dorren aep Shiadhal died, instead of anybody else with elder blood died. If you have other sources, could you point them to me, please? -— Iosueyu (talk) 16:40, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Well, Yaevinn didn't say it happened in the Vizima swamps. I don't think using known records can guarantee there weren't other descendants. Plus their ability to travel in time makes such kind of evaluations quite moot. May be quest designers did intend to indicate that, but at least with TW3 it could be based on that legend source, but why would they change location of Lara's death for TW1? — Gilrond (talk) 17:52, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Yaevinn didn't mention her being killed near Vizima. True enough. We have just found out by ourselves that feainnewedd grows around the swamp, where the swamp was a hill with beautiful flowers a lifetime ago (mentioned by an Old Woman). As for travelling in time, I think the person in question should first be a Source and then be one with Elder blood. For example, Alvin or Jacques de Aldersberg was definitely a Source. He has travelled in time and place but not to other worlds. The records of Ciri's ancestors being potent mages don't even exist. She was probably the only Source in the whole bloodline. As for why the changes... sometimes CDPR changes things out of the blue. Like, they changed the date of Battle of Brenna. I think they do that just to make inconsistency to the books. That's quite the problem with the Witcher Fandom here as we don't really know which is canon. Look there are so many Witcher fans but this Wiki is so sparsely populated. Anyway, sorry for sidetracking. I have no idea why and what. Just figured the feainnewedd should, at least in the mind of CDPR, mark the place where Lara Dorren perished, considering they also make events from short stories from different time and places in the book happen in various places in the games. -— Iosueyu (talk) 19:30, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I guess they have at least expected the player to think about it, just by placing feainnewedd there and putting in the book that it grows only in the place of Lara's death or in Dol Blathanna. And I agree about inconsistencies with the lore - that's not the first time in the games.— Gilrond (talk) 20:50, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Not sure about the size of Witcher fandom, but editing wikis isn't something everyone does. I'd say this Wiki is pretty good in general. — Gilrond (talk) 21:30, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Gilrond, nowhere was it stated that this was in the Vizima Swamps — Game widow ( talk ) 14:07, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
She wasn't the only Source in the bloodline. Pavetta and Adalia did have magical skills also. — SMiki5five (talk) 11:23, 15 October 2017 (UTC)